windrider rave foiling trimaran

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Windrider Rave

http://www.windrider.com/rave.shtml

The Windrider Rave is a production rotomolded hydrofoil trimaran.  It was designed by Dr. Sam Bradfield who previously held speed records with nf 2 (neither fish nor fowl).

Last update: February 2008

WindRider International launches Rave V hydrofoil sailing trimaran

WindRider revolutionised hydrofoil sailing in 1998 with the original RAVE hydrofoil trimaran.  Based on feedback from RAVE owners, WindRider has created the RAVE V, an innovative design which addresses requested improvements through updated technology with these key objectives:                 

• Easy to trailer, assemble and handle at launch, dock and beach
• Self-trimming and leveling
• Lower retail price compared to other foiling sailboats in comparable category
• Foiling speeds below 8 knots and upwards of 30 knots
• Ability to point higher (closer to the wind) than most multihulls
• Rugged light weight design ability to carry over 400 pounds of crew and gear.

RAVE V accomplishes these objectives by combining the original RAVE ergonomic design including face-forward seating and foot pedal steering with:  1) retractable V shape foils, 2) A-frame dual mainsail rigging and 3) light-weight durable composite construction. 

Now in pre-production, RAVE V will be built in Sandusky, Ohio under the leadership of Larry Knauer, RAVE V lead designer and project manager.  Formerly with Lockheed Martin, Larry brings a combined 40 years of aerospace engineering and equivalent trimaran sailing experience to his role as Director of WindRider RAVE V.

WindRider has created a crowdfunding campaign which provides participants with a test sail, deposit on future purchase or discounted pre-sale on the first RAVE V production run.  Visit https://www.fundable.com/windrider  to learn more about pricing, availability and becoming a supporter.

WindRider International manufactures and distributes 3 models of sailing trimarans, WR17, WR16 and WRTango; in addition to acting as U.S. distributor for French built Astus trimarans, and online merchandising of sailboat parts and accessories.

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Rave V Foiling Trimaran.

Discussion in ' Multihulls ' started by Doug Lord , Dec 9, 2014 .

Doug Lord Flight Ready

This is an entirely new boat being done by Windrider with "V" foils and dual side to side rigs. More below. read the article here: http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=12549 WindRider revolutionized hydrofoil sailing in 1998 with the original RAVE hydrofoil trimaran. Based on feedback from RAVE owners, WindRider has created the RAVE V, an innovative design which addresses requested improvements through updated technology with these key objectives: Easy to trailer, assemble and handle at launch, dock and beach Capable of being sailed by sailors of all abilities Self-trimming and leveling Lower retail price compared to other foiling sailboats in comparable category Ability to foil in lighter winds and enjoyable sailing experience when not foiling Foiling speeds below 8 knots and upwards of 30 knots Ability to point higher (closer to the wind) than most multihulls Rugged light weight design ability to carry over 400 pounds of crew and gear. RAVE V accomplishes these objectives by combining the original RAVE ergonomic design including face-forward seating and foot pedal steering with: 1) retractable V shape foils, 2) A-frame dual mainsail rigging and 3) light-weight durable composite construction. Now in pre-production, RAVE V will be built in Sandusky, Ohio under the leadership of Larry Knauer, RAVE V lead designer and project manager. Formerly with Lockheed Martin, Larry brings a combined 40 years of aerospace engineering and equivalent trimaran sailing experience to his role as Director of WindRider RAVE V. WindRider has created a crowdfunding campaign which provides participants with a test sail, deposit on future purchase or discounted pre-sale on the first RAVE V production run. Visit https://www.fundable.com/windrider to learn more about pricing, availability and becoming a supporter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YiiFqyeZls  

Rave V More info: price est: $27,500 Here are specifications in the design: Overall boat length including rudder is 18.3 feet Overall boat beam is 14.4 feet, outside the Amas, there is no underwater width outside the Amas simplifying docking Total sail area is 320.6 Square feet, 160.3 square feet per sail Total boat height is 31 feet from bottom of sonic tube to top of mast. Mast height above the deck is 26.1 feet. Freeboard height is 1.95 feet Draft with V foils extended is 3.4 feet Draft with V foils pulled up is 0.6 feet ------ Boat length before the rudder mechanism 17 feet Boat length with rudder removed is 17.6 feet Main hull (Waka) max width is 2.47 feet Waka width in seating area is 1.87 feet Ama width is .75 feet Ama length is 14.9 feet Each mast is 26 feet long and a chord of 10 inches The semicircle mast top is 20 inches in diameter and a 10 inch cord designed to eliminate sail top spillage and drag losses. Total foil length each leg is 5.2 feet foil cord is 0.47 feet 13% thickness Sonic tube is 0.736 feet outside diameter and 0.95 feet long Boat is designed so that with 400 lbs standing on the ama the waterline is at the top of the submerged ama Sail foot is 7.2 feet with a boom of 7.5 feet. Sail is loose footed to the boom and is full battened elliptical plan form Amas will telescope in to a trailer width of 8.4 feet Semicircle mast top is removed for trailering For greater detail on the design by Larry Knauer, we have posted extensive notes on the WindRider blog(see link in first post)  

Jim Caldwell Senior Member

Interesting and only 1 hours to Sandusky for me. I hope the "sonic tubes" are providing a lot lift because the foil angles don't look good.  

Rave V Tom Speer has studied the rig concept for solid wings-see below. I'm not at all sure that his findings below would apply to the new Rave rig but it is worth considering: http://www.tspeer.com/landyachts/twin/dragstudy.htm Tom says: When compared on the basis of equal rig heights, the twin wing was superior in nearly every respect to a comparable analysis performed on a single wing rig. However, the actual performance may differ because of Reynolds number effects (the twin wing's Reynolds number is less than half that of the single wing) and compromises necessay to provide adequate structural stiffness to the twin wing's long, slender panels. http://www.tspeer.com/landyachts/twin/dragstudy.htm Illustration from Tom Speer:  

Attached Files:

Twin wing-tom speer.jpg.

Skyak Senior Member

Can anyone explain what a "sonic lifting tube" is and how it is applied?  

Rave V No, not really. I can , however, say that it is a 100% useless appendage on a foiler of this size whose primary contribution will be enormous drag. A boat this size doesn't even get close to cavitation speed until it approaches 40+ knots. On the other hand the foils might experience ventilation much sooner than cavitation. The designer says: Design foiling speed to start about or below 7 knots at the design boat and passenger weights. Design V foils to unload as the boat accelerates and lifts out of the water. This is accomplished by the decrease in the lifting area as well as a change in foils design along the length of the foil to be optimized based on speed (Reynolds number) and lifting force out of the water. The lowest point of the v foil is a connecting sonic tube lifting cylinder that has a diameter between 1 and 1.5 time the cord of the foil legs. The sonic tube should have a length about 1.5 to 2 times the diameter of the tube. The center of lift of the tube and the foil legs should be aligned but we may consider the sail forces in trading the center of lift of the tube with the foil legs to optimize the center of foiling lift with sail forces and speed variability.  

Broomstick This foiler belongs to and was designed and is being developed by Doug Halsey. It is 15' long,17' wide, weighs 210lb. and uses "V" foils.Broomsticks sail area is between 108 and a max of 143 sq.ft.. Maybe Doug can add the correct figure? You can see the difference in foil spacing as compared to the Rave V: left picture courtesy of Doug Halsey, right sketch of Rave V from their site:  

Broomstick_4.jpg

Rave v sketch.png, rave v sketch3.png.

Doug Lord said: ↑ No, not really. I can , however, say that it is a 100% useless appendage on a foiler of this size whose primary contribution will be enormous drag. A boat this size doesn't even get close to cavitation speed until it approaches 40+ knots. On the other hand the foils might experience ventilation much sooner than cavitation. The designer says: Design foiling speed to start about or below 7 knots at the design boat and passenger weights. Design V foils to unload as the boat accelerates and lifts out of the water. This is accomplished by the decrease in the lifting area as well as a change in foils design along the length of the foil to be optimized based on speed (Reynolds number) and lifting force out of the water. The lowest point of the v foil is a connecting sonic tube lifting cylinder that has a diameter between 1 and 1.5 time the cord of the foil legs. The sonic tube should have a length about 1.5 to 2 times the diameter of the tube. The center of lift of the tube and the foil legs should be aligned but we may consider the sail forces in trading the center of lift of the tube with the foil legs to optimize the center of foiling lift with sail forces and speed variability. Click to expand...

Corley epoxy coated

There is no weight listed for the platform that I could see which to my mind is the real answer as to whether this concept will fly in an acceptable band of wind strengths.  

Rave V I went to the link below and left a couple of questions for the designer-one of which is about the projected all up boat weight. http://www.windrider.com/blog/rave-v-designer-notes/?comment=16231 Checked today and it says: "Your comment is awaiting moderation".  

Rave V Using an estimated boat weight of 300lb and an all up sailing weight of 700lbs, I found the approx. max pressure this boat can sail in is .58lb.sq.ft.. For reference an F18 with two guys on trapezes can sail in 1.8lb./sq.ft. pressure before having to depower or reef.  

mcm Senior Member

Dual side by side rig ? Has any one had any experience with this rig ? Any one have any educated guesses about how this rig might perform on a tri designed for speed ? Doug Lord said: ↑ http://www.tspeer.com/landyachts/twin/dragstudy.htm Tom says: When compared on the basis of equal rig heights, the twin wing was superior in nearly every respect to a comparable analysis performed on a single wing rig. http://www.tspeer.com/landyachts/twin/dragstudy.htm Click to expand...

Rave II Doug Lord said: ↑ I went to the link below and left a couple of questions for the designer-one of which is about the projected all up boat weight. http://www.windrider.com/blog/rave-v-designer-notes/?comment=16231 Checked today and it says: "Your comment is awaiting moderation". Click to expand...

Doug Lord said: ↑ I still have major questions about this design but I hope it works well! Click to expand...

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mcm said: ↑ Is it the choice of V-foils and sonic tubes that cause you major questions, or is it the dual side by side rig ? .58lbs/sq.ft.,,, because of the righting moment ? Don't we have to know the lift of those V-foils at various speeds to calculate the righting moment at those speeds ? Or was the equation just beam, buoyancy and gravity VS. sq. sail area and wind pressure the calculation factors ? __________________ Click to expand...

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Rave v update.

The photo is of Larry Knauer as he prepares to leave the "winter home" of RAVE V in Sarasota Florida to return to the midwest.  Testing over the winter has resulted in reducing the sail area and identification of the need to increase the diameter of the tubular inlet on the foils which we will begin to work on in about a week.

But we can share the perspective of someone who is looking forward to owning one:

I had the special opportunity to sail the RAVE V prototype in Sarasota last month, so I wanted to add my two cents worth.

My first impression, walking along the dock toward the boat, was that the twin masts and the unique inverted V design are real attention-grabbers. And while that in itself isn’t necessarily an attribute one might pursue, it will surely be good for garnering interest among other sailors and thereby great advertising.

In about 10 knots of wind, Larry and Robert each took the boat out during three trips with adjustments to the mast rake in-between. Turns out, upwind agility in the light winds is highly sensitive to rake angle. Tacking was rather challenging in the light winds with the more forward rake, making leaving and returning to the marina a bit sporty. Before the third trip out, and half the initial forward rake adjustment removed, the boat sailed quite nicely. Later, the winds calmed such that we secured the boat and quit for the day.

Given the light winds on day two, I picked up a 70hp deckboat from Little Sarasota bay. After lunch we hooked the tow boat up to the RAVE to test foiling under tow with Larry at the helm. We brought the boat up to about 10 knots. The RAVE was riding particularly nose high, trying to fly with the forward foils dominating. I added a bit more throttle, and at about 12 knots, the port foil broke off after hitting an underwater object. Fortunately, the composite material floats and we were able to locate and retrieve the broken foil.

On day four, I got my turn at the helm, albeit with a single forward foil. The boat sails very well, points extremely high, and tacks and gybes easily. Wing-on-wing with two mainsails is quite a new experience, though I found it much more difficult to coax and retain the two sails to opposite sides of the boat than with a typical main/foresail arrangement. Larry had an easier time of it than I did. Visibility from the cockpit under the booms is spectacular, something I had worried would be sacrificed with this design. We also sailed briefly with the remaining foil retracted. In this configuration, tacking was more difficult and leeway predictably much greater. Finally, we performed an impromptu “max load test”, adding two brave souls, one to each trampoline. The boat handled just as impressively with four aboard as it did with one. Like the WR-17 the trampoline is a similarly wet place to ride.

The light winds were insufficient to get the RAVE to foil during any of our tests, so we were limited to more traditional sailing with the foils simply performing as a keel. However, in this arrangement it seemed as though we could point 25 degrees to wind—an impressive achievement. Overall, I came away excited to be an early owner of the RAVE V.

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