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Dear Readers

  • Sailboat Reviews

Fifteen years after the last Baba was built in Taiwan, the sailboat's traditional styling, large interior and heavy weather performance make it a favorite of cruising couples. Its principal liability is poor light air performance.

The Baba line of boats was conceived in the mid-1970’s by Bob Berg, a Seattle yacht broker who with two business associates formed Flying Dutchman International Ltd. to import traditionally styled cruising boats from Taiwan.

Bob Perry was commissioned to design the boats, which Berg envisioned as a smaller version of the Tayana 37, one of Perry’s most popular designs. Though it is a full-keeled boat, the Tayana 37 has a greater turn of speed than most traditional yachts.

“Our objective was to produce a boat that was faster and less expensive than the Westsail 32 and the Valiant 32,” Berg said. He personally designed the boat’s interior for long­distance cruising. Two versions were offered: a V-berth model, which was popular on the West Coast, and the double berth model that was popular in the East.

Berg chose a propitious time to enter the market. Production began during the heyday of the sailboat industry in 1978 and continued until 1985. More than 230 Baba 30’s were produced. During the later stages of its history, the company produced two stretch versions of the boat-theBaba 35, of which more than 50 were built, and the Baba 40, with more than 150 built. The design of the Baba 40 was reworked twice, first as the Panda 40, and later as the Tashiba 40.

The boats were built in Taiwan for three reasons, Berg said. “Ta Shing boatbuilders were among the best in the world, and the best in Taiwan. Labor was inexpensive. And we enjoyed a favorable exchange rate.”

Ta Shing also built or builds the Mason, Panda, Tashiba and Taswell yachts.

The Baba 30 was introduced with a sticker price of $38,500 in 1977. A subsequent change in the value of the dollar resulted in a price jump to $49,500. That was followed by a 40% devaluation of the Taiwanese dollar and another increase in price.

Two other factors influenced pric­ing: The builder switched from Volvo engines, installed on early models, to Yanmar, and spruce spars were replaced by aluminum. The last boats sold were priced at $78,000.

In addition to pricing issues, the demise of Flying Dutchman International was accelerated by two other factors: a general slump in the purchase of new boats, and a shift in buyer sentiment. During the mid-1980’s, purchasing patterns shifted to a preference for lighter, faster, sleek­er-looking designs.

The Baba 30 continues to have one of the highest resale values in the marketplace. Twenty-year-old boats sell for $55,000 to $60,000; newer models for $60,000 to $65,000. Because Flying Dutchman had dealers on both coasts, the Gulf of Mexico, Great Lakes and Canada, it is possible to find used boats in most areas.

Perry’s design reflects a self-described disdain for the belief that “if it’s a traditional design it will be slow.” His objective was to take a relatively heavy, traditional double-ender and work with the hull lines to “ring every tenth of a knot in speed out of the design that I can.”

He gave the boat an easily driven hull with a prismatic coefficient of .50, “which should take care of performance in light air,” he said. The hull has considerable flair to the top­sides, which enhances stability and provides a dry ride when sailing to weather.

He also flattened the bottom more than a typical Colin Archer design in an attempt to avoid hobby horsing and enhance performance. The boat has a full keel with a cutaway forefoot, so it tracks well. One owner, however, described backing up under power as “an adventure,” a typical characteristic of full-keeled boats.

Owners give the boat high marks for its sea kindly motion in all types of sea conditions. They generally agree that it suffers in light air.

Perry was equally attentive to the needs of cruisers in the design of spaces belowdecks. That concern, coupled with a pinched stern, produces a rather smallish cockpit. Its seats are 60″ long and 20″ wide, so realistically has comfortable seating for four adults. The footwell is 44″ long and 28″ wide, but useful space is diminished by the introduction of a steering pedestal. The cockpit is not large enough for sleeping comfort­ably, but its small size is a safety feature in the event of boarding waves. Also, there are two 2″ scuppers.

The flip side of the minimalist approach to the cockpit is an increase in space belowdecks.

“Anything shorter than 30′ is too small for a long-distance cruiser, un­less you are willing to make serious compromises. At 30′, the designer still can create a workable galley, at least four full length berths, and an en­closed head,” Perry said.

The boat has 6′ 4″ headroom and a lot of stowage, even when compared to more recent 32- to 34-footers, but the price of stowage areas is a dramatic increase in displacement. The boat displaces 12,000 lb. on a 24′ 6″ water­line. Perry said that at the time he designed the Baba 30, the average 30- footer displaced about 7 ,000 lb.

“But,” he added, “you will find that the light yacht is short on stowage space, which is fine for short week­end trips and day sailing. I chose a rather beamy double-ender with a healthy displacement-to-length ratio(D/L) of 3 79, which afforded the interior volume to do a comfortable layout.”

The Baba 30 has a tall cutter rig. The sail area-to-displacement ratio (SAID) is 14.97. “While this may be viewed as a rather low figure,” he said, “it is my contention that at this size the use of a 150% genoa is not prohibitive. My aim was to design a rig compatible with the hull I had designed in terms of deriving maximum performance.”

During our test sail, we discovered that a large genoa or light air drifter contributes significantly to downwind speed in winds under 10 knots. Above 15 knots, the boat can be sailed at hull speed with a jib and staysail.

One owner told us that the boat is easily driven to weather, and will point to within 35 of apparent wind when sails are properly trimmed.

“The result of my design is not a cute cartoon,” Perry concluded, “but a really capable offshore cruising yacht.

Construction

Berg, two professional surveyors, and owners who responded to the PS Boatowner’ s Questionnaire agree that the Baba 30 is a well-constructed, blue-water vessel.

The hulls were constructed of uncored, hand-laid fiberglass using alternating layers of 1. 5-ounce mat and 24-ounce woven roving.

There are six layers in most places, and 10-12 layers in the keel area,” Berg recalled.

The interiors of early boats were smoothed and sprayed with gelcoat, and covered with a quilted vinyl material. Later models were sprayed with a foam that provided insulation and sound deadening.

Newer boats we inspected also have hulls lined with teak battens in the saloon and forepeak, which improve noise insulation and add to the boat’s traditional feel. The cabin sole is teak and holly. Cabinetry and joinery are of a quality typically associated with high-end custom yachts.

Berg disclosed that some of the hulls experienced minor blistering problems, “usually within 12″ of the waterline,” he said.

Ron Reisner, a Seattle-based surveyor and construction consultant with Reisner and McEwen, Inc., oversaw construction of Baba yachts during the 1970’s on two trips to Taiwan. He has since surveyed several used Baba 30’s, including two in 1998.

“The boats were substantially built, and have held up well,” he told us. “The only problem we have discovered is that some chainplate bolts have corroded.” Because the bolts are visible from below, their condition is easy to monitor.

Jerry Edwards, a surveyor with the same firm, concurred. Edwards sold, commissioned and performed sea trials on several boats during three years as a yacht broker, and has surveyed seven since becoming a surveyor.

“The construction is on a par with almost any quality production boat,” he said. “The electrical systems are excellent; the company used high quality wire, which was tagged and bundled. The plumbing system is also good. The blisters we saw were usually 1/8″ inch in size, and usually in small clusters near the waterline. They probably were a function of the company using isophthalic resins, rather than orthophthalic. But my main criticism of the boat is the use of a steel fuel tank.”

We inspected boats constructed in 1979 and 1983, both of which had completed trans-Pacific passages, and found no evidence of cracking or crazing on gelcoat surfaces, or of water leaks around the mast or ports. One still has a good non-skid surface on deck. On the other, its teak decks showed little wear.

The first boats produced were equipped with only one set of shrouds, Berg told us. However, after one owner’s boat was dismasted, fore and aft lower shrouds were add­ed to the single spreader rig.

Later models in­corporated a boom gallows.

Deck Layout

One of the Baba 30’s most prominent features is the 4′ bowsprit. It is surrounded by a stainless steel pulpit, and also houses two bow rollers and a large bronze winch.

Most boats were equipped with self-tending staysails, but two we inspected had been retrofitted with furlers on the jib and staysail stays, which simplified sail handling during double-handed passages across the Pacific Ocean.

The rest of the boat’s on-deck systems are rather ordinary; halyards are led to Lewmar 30 two­speed winches mounted on the cabin top, and jib sheets through blocks to Lewmar 40 two-speed winches in the cockpit. Sail tracks, port and star­board, on the coachroof, are for the stay sail sheets. The side decks are 18″ wide. The toerail is 3″ high.

Though tiny, the cockpit is functionally organized. Stowage space includes a port lazarette, two elevated, oval­shaped compartments aft that also provide a backrest for the helmsman and crew, and another vented compartment for a propane tank. Two 14″-wide cubbies with teak covers are good for stowing winch handles and other small items.

Two hatches and four bronze opening ports on each side of the cabin were standard. Two opening skylights over the saloon are 34″ long and 18″ wide; a second 24″ square hatch is located over the forepeak. Additional ventilation is through two 6″ Dorades installed in fiberglass boxes forward of the mast.

One owner mounted a spinnaker pole on a sail track on the front of the mast, which takes no otherwise usable space and eliminates the need to drill holes in the deck.

Accommodations

A number of Baba 30’s have made trans-oceanic passages, carrying adequate provisions for a crew of two. One couple spent 27 days sailing from Hawaii to Seattle.

The layout is fairly straightforward with the galley to port below the companionway, the nav station opposite, and a quarterberth to starboard. An almost triangular-shaped head is to starboard, forward of the saloon, and the V-berth fills the bow. With the exception of countertops in the galley, all of the surfaces are teak, which has aged well on the boats we saw.

The nav table is 28″ wide, and 17″ deep. A cabinet 26″ wide, 14″ high and 12″ deep is on the forward edge of the nav station and provides adequate room for VHS, GPS, ham radio or single-sideband and weatherfax. An additional 50″ x 9″ shelf provides room for books and other instruments.

The quarterberth aft of the nav station is 68″ long (plus 12″ of the nav seat) and 30″ wide and has stowage below it.

We found two interesting stowage areas under the companionway-a hanging locker immediately to starboard of the engine compartment that is large enough for two sets of foul weather gear, and another 18″ wide and 12″ high into which one owner had mounted a small microwave oven.

The engine is accessible by removing the companionway steps and cover, though some owners complain that changing oil filters is an acrobatic challenge.

The galley is a typical U-shaped affair with the ice box aft, a gimbaled two-burner stove and a dry locker and sink forward. Countertops are as large as those found on bigger boats.

Living spaces are equally spacious, partially attributable to the boat’s 10′ 6″ beam and 6′ 4″ headroom. The port settee is 6′ long and the starboard settee is 50″. Three storage compartments measuring 20″ wide, 21″ tall and 16″ deep are located on both sides of the boat, above which are enclosed cabinets more than 24″ long.

Water and fuel tanks are located below the settees.

The head is large enough to be functional but has little elbow room. It measures 31″ deep and 42″ wide, and is equipped with a circular stainless sink. The medicine cabinet is large enough for some toiletries, but too small for a cruising medical kit.

The hanging locker to port is 43″ high and 18″ wide-adequate for a small amount of clothing. We think most clothes will be stored in cabinets below the 77″ x 60″ V-berth. The chain locker/forepeak is accessed through louvered teak doors. A drawback is the water that can come aboard with the ground tackle, not to mention the smell of mud.

In our opinion, the spaces below­decks on this boat are well-organized and adequate for couples planning extended passages, especially com­pared to newer production boats.

Some owners, however, report that tankage numbers are inaccurate. One told us that the fuel tank holds just 2 7 gallons, not 40 as advertised. Another said the two 40-gallon water tanks hold only 50 gallons combined.

Performance

Our experience aboard the Baba 30, corroborated by PS readers, found that in very light winds she’s an under-performer; above that, she performs on all points of sail, is sea kindly and has an easy helm.

The most cogent comments came from a couple in their mid-50’s who sailed a 1976 model from Hawaii to Seattle. After cruising Hawaiian waters for 18 months, they began the upwind route to the mainland, which took 27 days. The boat was not equipped with a spinnaker, so they used a 150% genoa in light air.

In less than 10 knots of wind the boat made 1-2 knots, steered to within 5 of its intended course for three days by an Auto-helm wind vane. When winds picked up to more than 10 knots, boat speed increased to 5 knots while sailing under the vane on a close reach. Three days from port the boat was struck by a 30-hour storm, during which winds built from 20 to 50 knots.

“The wind vane wasn’t operating properly, so we disconnected it, and steered by hand,” the skipper said. “Aside from general fatigue, we had no problems because the boat was easy to sail and the helm well-bal­anced; we just tied off the helm and hid behind the dodger, sailing under a double-reefed main and staysail. The ride was very comfortable. It seems as though the more the wind blew, the stouter the boat became.”

Conclusions

We think the Baba 30 will be pleasing to the eye of any sailor with an appreciation for traditional yachts. The construction methods are among the best used during its era, and have aged well; recent surveys of aging boats show them to be structurally sound. Accommodations are spacious and the joiner work is of very good quality. Performance is about what we’d ex­pect for a boat with her displacement, so it’s no surprise that she’s sluggish in 5-10 knots of wind.

The Baba 30 has held its value well; used boats are still commanding prices nearly as high as they were 10 years ago.

RELATED ARTICLES MORE FROM AUTHOR

I’ve never seen a 30 – or any baba – with a self tending staysail, nor have i ever heard of it anywhere else. I don’t know where the number of hatches came from either : companionway, forward hatch, and 10 opening windows (all of them). Most 30s have one inline and one aft lower (though a few moved the inline lower shroud forward). Otherwise, this seems mostly accurate. Oh, several dozen hull numbers were skipped so there’s about 150 30s produced i believe.

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Bluewater Sailboat – Tashiba 31

Also called: tashiba 31ph, ta shing 31, ta shing 31ph.

The Bluewater Sailboat Tashiba 31, designed with her larger 36-foot twin, is Bob Perry’s final full-keeled manufacturing double-ender. Though small on the outside, the interior is big and opulent, as is typical of Taiwanese builder Ta Shing.

Ta Shing commissioned Perry to design the boat, which was launched in 1986. It had been over a decade since the Taiwanese boatyard rose to fame with the production of the popular and closely comparable Baba 30 double-ender (also Perry designed). It’s worth noting that, despite the years between the two designs, the Baba 30 and the Tashiba 31 are frequently confused as variations on the same boat.

Tashiba 31

  • LOA: 35′ 4″
  • LOD: 30′ 9″
  • LWL: 25′ 10″
  • Beam: 10′ 8″
  • Draft, Standard: 5′ 0″
  • Draft, Shoal: 4′ 6″
  • Displacement: 13,790 lbs.
  • Ballast, Standard: 4,705 lbs.
  • Ballast, Pilothouse: 4,100 lbs.
  • Sail Area: 550 sq.ft.
  • Engine: Yanmar 3GM30F (27hp)
  • Fuel: 35 US. Gal.
  • Water: 90 US. Gal
  • Designer: Robert H. Perry
  • Builder: Ta Shing Yacht Building Co., Taiwan
  • Year Introduced: 1986
  • Year Ended: 1988
  • Total Built: 26
  • Also Known As: Tashiba 31PH, Ta Shing 31, Ta Shing 31PH

Make no mistake, the lighter and faster Tashiba 31 is a completely different animal. Her hull shape is a variation on the Baba 40. The Baba 40, was a radical departure from his earlier full keelers; the 40 was actually a full-keeled descendant of the renowned fast-fin-keeled Valiant 40. It was such a success in terms of performance and handling of the components that worked. The leading edge of the keel was pushed further forward, the bilge turn was tightened, and the bow entrance was fine-tuned.

The Bluewater Sailboats Tashiba 31 and 36 are the best boats ever designed with modified full keels. The boats are quick, close to the breeze, sturdy, and well-balanced. 

The Tashiba 31 is available in three variants. There were two aft cockpit versions available: one with a seagoing quarter-berth (the most popular) and another with a forward stateroom and the head aft (we have yet to see either of them). There was also a pilothouse version, which is unusual for a boat of this length, and only two were made. Overall, they did not sell as well as planned, with 26 boats recorded in the owners registry (created kindly by Alan Sugarman of the Baba / Panda / Tashiba owners organization).

Quick Notes

These Bluewater sailboats, like all Ta Shing boats from that era, have a devoted following. The build quality is superb, and most are in very good shape, having been meticulously maintained by their owners.

Now you can also precisely calculate the expenses related to boat ownership to make smart choices based on your budget and sailing needs. Use this bluewater Sailboat Calculator to explore different options and make the best decision.

If you’re looking for a used sailboat for sale, check out the Bluewater sailboat data and specs to make an informed decision. Ocean Wave Sail has data for over 10000+ boats that can help you select one to meet your sailing needs.

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Baba-Panda-Tashiba Sailboat Website

For sailors interested in baba, panda, and tashiba sailboats, standard features and equipment, hull and deck.

  • Hand laminated FRP hull designed to meet or exceed Lloyds specifications. Lloyd certificate available at additional cost.
  • Hand laminated FRP and end-grain wood sandwich construction deck and cabin.
  • Textured non-skid surfaces on deck flats and cabin top. Teak overlay on cockpit seating area.
  • Hull-to-deck joint chemically bonded, fastened with stainless steel bolts, cosmetically finished with teak caprail fastened with stainless steel bolts.
  • Internal cast iron single-ingot ballast, glassed over to reinforce hull section.
  • Laminated bowsprit with double anchor rollers.

Hardware and Equipment

  • Aluminum spar set and stainless steel standing rigging to designer’s specifications.
  • Yacht braid running rigging and pre-stretched yacht braid halyards with snap shackles.
  • Jiffy reefing, outhaul, and topping lift.
  • Primaries – 2 #30C
  • Secondaries – 2 #8C
  • Mainsheet – 1 #24C
  • Main halyard – 1 #16C
  • Yankee halyard – 1 #16C
  • Staysail halyard – 1 #8C
  • Roller bearing mainsheet traveler.
  • Aluminum Genoa and staysail sheet tracks.
  • Schaefer blocks for all running rigging.
  • Double rail stainless steel bow and stern pulpits.
  • Double lifelines with opening gates P & S.
  • All deck hardware thru-bolted with stainless steel backing plates.
  • Tiller steering, laminated hardwood tiller handle.
  • Bronze lever-action seacocks.
  • Stainless steel deck pipe to chain locker.
  • Sampson post, six hawse fairleads and mooring cleats.
  • Large teak double-opening skylight over main salon.
  • Teak opening hatch at forward end of cabin.

Ten bronze opening ports with stainless steel exterior trim rings.

  • Two forward dorade vents.
  • Teak caprail, cockpit coaming and cabin accent trim, cockpit and bow well gratings.
  • One large, deep cockpit locker.
  • Louvered teak companionway doors and drop boards.
  • Vented cockpit propane locker for one 5gallon bottle.
  • Mainsail with two reef rows and mainsail cover.
  • Yankee jib with ready bag.
  • Staysail with ready bag.

Tankage and Machinery

  • 27 hp Yanmar three cylinder FWC marine diesel engine.
  • 40 gallon baffled black iron fuel tank with large inspection port.
  • 90 gallons fresh water in two baffled stainless steel tanks with large inspection ports.
  • Fresh water hand or foot pumps in galley and head.
  • Enclosed marine head with holding tank and “Y” valve.
  • Two bilge pumps (manual and 12 volt electric).
  • 12 volt and 110 volt electrical systems with circuit breaker panel and shore power connection.
  • 100 A/H heavy duty marine battery with 4-way switch.
  • Navigation lights to International Rules.
  • Mast anchor and foredeck lights.
  • Electrical bonding system to chainplates, tanks, thru-hulls, etc.
  • Choice of sleeping accommodations for four or five.
  • Large double berth forward with lockers and drawers below, louvered lockers and shelves P & S or …
  • Traditional V-berth with filler, lockers below and louvered lockers and shelves P & S.
  • Large hanging locker, port forward with louvered door.
  • Highest quality teak veneer interior bulkheads.
  • Enclosed head with Formica interior bulkheads, teak louvered locker and mirror, sink and Formica counter top. Shower sump & grating.
  • P & S settee/berths with louvered lockers, shelves, and seatback lockers.
  • Bulkhead-mounted fold-down teak dropleaf table.
  • Teak overhead grabrails.
  • Teak/lightwood cabin sole.
  • Extremely efficient galley arrangement with large well insulated top loading ice box; large asbestos/stainless steel lined stove area; stainless steel sinks with covers; easily cleaned Formica counter tops; and numerous drawers, lockers, and shelves throughout the galley area.
  • Navigation station located starboard aft, with hinged chart table storage, shelves, and lockers.
  • Drained wet locker at companionway, starboard.
  • Traditional quarterberth aft with storage below, or ….
  • Large louvered storage locker aft of navigation seat, plus additional cockpit locker.
  • 4″ foam, vinyl cushions.
  • Spruce battening on exposed hull areas within cabin.

The specification sheet (shown above) is from the 1985-1986 era Baba 30s.  Several variations and options were found on Babas throughout their life cycle including:

  • Wooden spars instead of aluminum were standard on earlier models.
  • Wheel steering was frequently substituted for tiller.
  • Lapstrakes were all-teak instead of fiberglass inlays in later models.
  • Volvo and Perkins diesels were used in earlier models.
  • Salon tables were sometimes fixed, floor-mounted instead of bulkhead-mounted.
  • Decks were often teak, others were textured, non-skid.
  • Older models had solid teak staves instead of veneer bulkheads.
  • Options included marble vanity tops, and prisms in foredeck.

2 thoughts on “ Standard Features and Equipment ”

I need to find the replacement gasket for the ports…any ideas ?

Hi, Sebastian. Please join our Baba-Panda-Tashiba Sailboats Google Group to find answers: https://groups.google.com/g/baba-l/

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15-11-2007, 18:22  
Boat: Mariner 31 #9 - 'Architeuthis'
my first sailboat. I plan to live on it in Moss Landing, CA for a year or so while saving up and gaining experience. Then the plan is for my girlfriend and I to down to the Islands and off into the . I'm looking for a small, cruising . I just put an offer in on a Baba 30 but someone beat me too it so my offer is a "back up" offer and I think I'm unlikely to get it.
I'm trying to restrict my to less than $50K. I could afford more but, the more I spend on the , the longer it will take me to be able to leave on it.

If I don't end up with this Baba, there are some other models I'm considering. The 8-ton cruiser is also a 30ft double ender that seems to be aimed at the same sort of purpose as the Baba and they seem to typically be cheaper. Do any of you have experience with these ? Specifically, I'm wondering about sailing characteristics. I certainly don't expect any of these to be real fast but I don't want to end up with something that horribly. I've read favorable reports of sailing the Baba but haven't seen anything about the .

I've also looked at a couple of Mariners. In particular, I saw a Mariner 31 that I really liked. My impression is that the Mariner isn't as well suited to open ocean and heavy as the other two boats. Has anyone had any experience with heavy on the small Mariners or used them for long distance cruising?

If anyone has information that would help me, I'd appreciate you passing it along. If you have other suggestion for boats that might suit my purposes, I'd like to hear those as well. One thing that I have to consider is . I'm 6'3" and while I don't mind occasionally hitting my on something, I don't want to be hunched over all the time.

Thanks in advance.
15-11-2007, 20:43  
Boat: Westsail 32
in for Westsail 32's. We looked at a slew of boats in the 50K range (including Baba 30s and Williards) and decided you can't get more for the than with a W32. They're solid, sail well (don't laugh - I click along at 4 knots in 5 knots of , sipping a coolly while the steers 50% of the time), and a boat packed and ready to go can be had for the 50k you're interested in spending.

Baba 30's are beautiful, sail well (sailed three), and are comfy (except the awkward wheel/binnacles.). That said, my boat is beautiful, well, is comfortable all over, and I enjoy that it has a tiller and stern hung along with a bunch of other things.

Best of luck on your search!

Fair leads,
Aaron N.
15-11-2007, 21:39  
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
time. Easy to sail and will carry all the junk you tend to accumulate. Our steered 98% of the time. The boat was very comfortable for the two of us and really has the volume of a boat nearing 40'.

Aloha
Peter O.
16-11-2007, 10:59  
Boat: Mariner 31 #9 - 'Architeuthis'
cruisers), wet, initially , and tend to not balance out very well - especially going upwind. Please don't be offended. I haven't actually sailed one so I only have what I've heard from others to go on. Overall, I have the impression that they'll get you where you're going but aren't very pleasant to sail.

I did go and look at one that was . It was definitely well built. It was a factory finished boat and the was beautiful and there was an impressive amount of . I was already a bit on the fence due to some of the unfavorable things I'd heard about their sailing characteristics but what really killed it for me was the lack of . I'm 6'3" and there wasn't any part of the that I could stand fully upright in. The Baba 30 has a touch more headroom and while there are a few places I can bonk my head, for the most part I can stand up and walk upright.

I understand that the Willard was also designed by William and I've seen a few sources that claim he wanted to address things he saw as shortcomings in the design of the W32. I'd love to hear from someone that had sailed both the W32 and the Willard and could compare the two. I'm hoping to go and take a look at one on Sunday so at least I'll know if the headroom situation is any different from the Westsail.
16-11-2007, 11:56  
on the Willard, and looked at a couple. Not much is available on the , but I did track down some and past owners. Get me your and I can forward all of the info/reviews/opinions I received.

Other boats I have looked at are the CT34, 34, Downeast 32, Mariner 31,32,36. I have thought about the Westsail 32, but was leary from all the negatives I've heard as well...no actual experience. I find that both sides are very aggresive in their arguments, so it is hard to make a judgement without actually having first hand experience.

If you have any boats you liked/disliked in this category I would love to hear your opinions. If you have any suggestions they would also be helpful.
16-11-2007, 14:00  
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
coming over the bow. It essentially steered itself which it would do on the in every condition we encountered. Oh, it averaged 125nm per day for the 4 days under those lovely conditions..

As far as fast, we averaged 118nm per day through the . No boost from currents or whatever, it was measured by a Walker Log backed up by a knotmeter/Log. Included two crossings of the doldrums which gave us new apprecitation for Coleridges 'Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner'. Used the only for and getting in and out of port when we couldn't sail out. Best days run was 177 nm, did 185nm on another W32. Did 900 miles in 6 days. Also had a 15 mile day ITC and 4-5 days of 50+ average crossing the ITC on the way back to . Did all this with the boat either self-steering or the at the . If the boat sailed, I wasn't doing it.

The w32 is not a good light air boat. Boat will sail but will not win any races. in under 5mph winds, any fin boat will literally sail rings around a W32 and any other boat, for that matter, because of the wetted surface. The biggest negative was the poor performance beating into a chop in light air. The boat would hobby horse and literally go sideways. In the onr or two instances that we encountered these conditions, we sailed with the engine ticking over just above idle and pointed higher and footed faster than any IOR boat. The w32 is not a boat you try and pinch up in. We found the secret for speed was to keep the boat moving. Falling off a few degrees made the track over the ground way higher and the VMG way better.

As far as being initially, yep But all full boats that aren't total pigs in light air will be tender inititally. To cut down on wetted surface, full keel boats are designed with slack bilges. Instead of the flat bottoms of the fin keel boats, full keel boats have a gentle slide from the watrer line to the keel. It makes them initially a bit tender but also makes the motion slower and less violent. It also means they harden up as the angle of heel increases and have much greater ultimate stability. You know, the kind of stability that saves your ass when the **** hits the fan.

They will sail to weather without a hand on the . As the speed increases there is significant induced weather helm sailing off the wind. They will not balance, but then I've never been on a boat that would except low aspect rigs that gave new meaning to slow. Since the Aries did all the , the weather helm was never an issue and certainly didn't hurt performance.

The W32 is an FRP variant of the Atkins 'Eric/Thistle' design. Don't know how much did in making the conversion. One thing I heard was moving the prop into an aperture in the instead of mostly in the and the design when Westsail took over the hull molds. The W32 was originally built by a guy named Kendall in the flush Thistle variant of Atkins design.

As far as headroom, there were differences in the deck molds. Early boats, like our #163, had an error in the that produced a lot of sheer in the top and cut head room down by at least 2". We are not headroom challenged so it didn't bother us and actually considered it an improvement as it looked better. Later boats had a deck without much sheer in the cabin top and a lot more headroom. Also, the deck beams that were options on the W32 were strictly cosmetic. They can be removed with impunity to increase head room by 1 1/2", if they are present. You might want to check out a couple of different W32's, especially one's after around #225 to see if they might have the headroom you want.

As far as being fun to sail, the W32 is a bus. It is not quick on the helm or light on it's feet. That's anathema to the around the buoys, inshore types. For long passages, it's a godsend, however. It's the difference between going cross country on a 998 Ducati or a home. The Ducati may get you there sooner, if you don't get arrested by the CHP, your butt and back hold out and you take nothing with you but a change of underwear. The motor home will get you there at or above the speed limit with all the things you need to live with for long periods though the drive may be a bit boring.

I'm not familiar with the Baba 30. It looks like a good capable of doig what you intend, though a little cramped. Correct me I'm wrong, but wasn't the Willard 30 hull also offered as a . It would lead me to believe that's it a motor sailer. Doesn't seem like it would be an improvement on the sailing abilities of a W32 and probably a goodly step behind.

By the way, I don't have a dog in this hunt. We've long since our W32 which has gone on to for another 50,000 miles. After a long hiatus from sailing, thought about our old W32 back. Since I'm strictly going to be coastal cruising decided it was too much boat. Bought a 35. It's probably a better boat for coastal cruising but it's not a boat I'd want take where we went in our W32.

Don't listen to the detractors of the W32, most haven't gone anywhere and certainly not in a W32. Yes there are better boats but none for the of a W32 that are built as strong, sail as well, and carry as much as the W32.

Aloha
Peter O.
16-11-2007, 15:18  
from the same exact . From what I understand the hires them to build boats. When they are between contracts, they design and build boats for the general public as a way to keep their staff employed and keep them from going elsewhere before the next comes up.
16-11-2007, 16:19  
Boat: Mariner 31 #9 - 'Architeuthis'
16-11-2007, 17:07  
Boat: Mariner 31 #9 - 'Architeuthis'
with an inboard that was given to UC by either NASA or the (I can't remember). It's kind of a cool boat but, of course, that doesn't really say much about the sailboat.

hires them to build boats. When they are between contracts, they design and build boats for the general public as a way to keep their staff employed and keep them from going elsewhere before the next comes up.
16-11-2007, 23:34  
Boat: Orca 38
Mariah 31. You might find some in your range. Inspired by the Westsail 32, but 5000 pounds lighter, and with a cutaway forefoot. Headroom is 6'5 throughout the whole thing. Even the head. I'm 6'4 and can jump slightly in places
29-08-2011, 09:19  
and would like to throw out a few comments to you:

1). The Baba's are very well designed and built sailboats. Some of my friends did a 25 year world on a Baba 40 and I saw them (and the boat) when they returned. The boat still looked fantastic and did right by them in every respect. I can't think of any vessel made in the U.S. , in your size and price range, that compares with it. I also had friends in Honolulu who had a 30 for a number of years and dearly loved it.

2). I am also quite familliar with Clair Oberly's lovely little Mariner boats. There was a time when I considered one of his Mariner 40's. Good workmanship, beautiful below, but small. They are essentially of the Bill Garden design philosophy (but not the same as the Garden boats, fortunately). Beautiful, salty and shippy. However the Baba is a Bob Perry design, which will out perform the Mariner on all points of sail. Having said that, I place comfort high on the list, but so is performance. The ideal boat will compromise very little on both. Incidentally, I assume the Mariners you looking at are all rigged. The "benefits" of a split rig on a boat that small are of little consequence.

3). The Westsail 32 has a nickname which may, or may not be, totally deserved: Wetsnail. Don't pound on me, W-32 owners. They are very well made boats. I know that because their hulls and decks were laid up by the people who did mine, Crystaliner Corp. in Costa Mesa. In all fairness, my comments regarding these boats is based on a couple of personal preferences: I don't like double enders and, to paraphrase Mr. Perry "Hobby horses belong in nurseries". Sorry about that!

Hope that helps a little, I am not out to confuse anybody.

Do a lot of , make an educated choice, and then enjoy the hell out of it.

Best of luck to you.

Garry Powell
Portland
29-08-2011, 09:30  
. You'll never keep up with the Baba. On the other hand, i guess you have to buy what turns you on.. Whatever you do... dont pay too much, you should be settling about 40% less than asking price right now... GENERALLY speaking. There should be lots of options for $50k in today's economy... probably to 36 ft or so... - Elmore Leonard








29-08-2011, 09:49  
, the boats were never the same, to the best of my recollection.

You're right, they are getting "long in the tooth".
29-08-2011, 10:29  
Boat: Prout Event 34
in your price range in Alameda. It's too small for my , but we jumped in to take a look anyway. My wife was overly impressed with the efficiency of the layout... had as much room in there as some of the 36 footers we were looking at earier that day. Beautiful finish (though it's be a FULL TIME job maintaining all of it to the standard it was presented in). Overall... I was impressed and I believe it's still for
29-08-2011, 12:11  
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
style keel. Great little design with a 47% ratio of ballast to , 11,500 disp and 5,000 ballast. Able to go in skinny water with her 3'8" and can do grounding on the grid for bottom because of the wide keel and shallow . Decent in light air as I found out. Short sticks with an easily handled sailplan. Nice little boat. I'd take her to sea. Best of all, ...
 
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  • Sailboat Guide

Baba 30 is a 34 ′ 6 ″ / 10.5 m monohull sailboat designed by Robert Perry and built by Ta Shing Yacht Building Ltd. between 1976 and 1986.

Drawing of Baba 30

  • 5 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 6 / 38 Huntington Beach, CA, US 2019 Baba 30 $2,000 USD View
  • 7 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 10 / 38 Huntington Beach, CA, US 2019 Baba 30 $2,000 USD View
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  • 12 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 13 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 16 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 17 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 19 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 21 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
  • 22 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 23 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 24 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
  • 25 / 38 United States 2001 Baba 30 $25,000 USD View
  • 26 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 28 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
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  • 37 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View
  • 38 / 38 United States 1979 Baba 30 $24,500 USD View

baba 31 sailboat

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

  • SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
  • D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
  • LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
  • LOA: Length overall in feet
  • Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

A collaboration between Bob Berg of Flying Dutchman, the design genius of Bob Perry and a Taiwanese boatyard that built fishing boats brought about the Baba 30, a serious go-anywhere boat packed into a diminutive 30 feet on deck. Traditionally styled, she is a beautifully proportioned double-ender with a full keel that’s a heavy weather performer. With excellent construction and a high end interior, Baba 30s have aged well, demanding a relatively high resale value  and  have become a favorite among cruising couples.

The Baba 30 was introduced in 1976 as a response to the unprecedented success of the Westsail 32 which with the help of a Time Magazine lifestyle feature is generally credited for creating the cruising boat boom of the 1970s.

Bob Berg of Flying Dutchman International enlisted Bob Perry to design the boat and contracted construction to a little known boatyard in Tainan City, Taiwan called Shing Sheng who’s first first foray from fishing boats to sailboats was a sophisticated 27ft racer built for a Japanese customer. The Baba 30 became the second yacht to be produced by Shing Sheng. It’s said that Perry had to kick chickens out of the way when walking to the yard in those early years. It was a place where the workers rechristened Bob Berg with the nickname “Baba”, affectionately meaning father; it was catchy enough to stick for the boat as well. By 1979 Shing Shen moved from An-Ping Quay to purpose built facilities in An-Ping Industrial Estate and a new name, “Ta Shing” was adopted.

Production ended in 1985 and although hull numbers go up to #246, there was a gap in numbering between #125 and #201 resulting in a total production count of around 170 boats. During this time the Baba 30 was joined by two other Perry designed stablemates, the Baba 35 .

The Baba 30 concept was later evolved by Bob Berg using designer Gary Grant into the Panda 34 and chose boatyard Hsin Hang to build the boat in Northern Taiwan. While Ta Shing themselves commissioned Perry to design the Tashiba 31 , an all new boat, one that Perry himself considers one of his best full keel designs, but is often mistaken as a revised Baba 30.

As a side note, in 1983 the Shing Sheng name was revived by Paul Wang, a senior partner in Ta Shing. Paul went on to build a number of Gary Grant designs including the Norseman 40 in his custom built facility in An-Ping Industrial District.

Configuration and Layout

There’s no questioning that this is a traditional full keel double-ender of Aitkens and Colin Archer heritage. The boat is nicely proportioned with beautifully balanced overhangs, a sweeping sheer, and the Perry favorite; a traditional canoe stern. A four foot bowsprit sits up front and from the mast hangs a cutter rig boasting a healthy 504 sq. ft. of sail.

John Kretschmer writing for Sailing Magazine commented, “it’s a big boat trapped in a short body” and certainly the displacement and ballast numbers are more akin to boats in the 35ft range. The cockpit is small, giving up most of the space to an expansive interior boasting 6′ 4″ of headroom. The layout down below has blue water in mind; there’s a seagoing berth and chart table combo on the starboard quarter and a large U-shaped seagoing galley to port. Two additional berths are provided in the saloon by way of settees either side of the saloon table. On some boats the table can fold away opening up the saloon, as per Perry’s original plans. The forward cabin came in two options, either a V-berth or a double berth which found favor in the East Coast. The quality of workmanship is superb and teak is abundantly used.

Construction

The Baba 30’s GRP hull follows the same layup schedule as the Valiant 32, with hull thicknesses running from just over a quarter of an inch near the topsides, to over a third of an inch near the bilges and grows to over half an inch in the tuck and keel. A single casting of iron is used as ballast which is encapsulated in GRP.

The hull to deck join is glued and through-bolted with a teak caprail sitting above the join. Early decks were cored with end-grain, kiln-dried, luan (philippine mahogany) affixed in 2 x 2 x 0.6 inch pieces, laid in filled polyester resin, later vessels utilized end-grain balsa on scrim with engineered kerfs (Baltec Contour core). Areas with through-deck fittings were locally cored in high quality marine plywood (made in Taiwan out of mahogany with waterproof glue, and boil-tested). All Baba 30 decks had a molded non-skid pattern, Thiokol-bedded teak decking was an option.

Bulkheads were of marine plywood that were staved with teak battens of 2 inches width, and much later, towards the end of production, models were available with teak veneered bulkheads as a means of reducing cost.

Early boats had wooden spars, of oregon and B.C. hemlock which do need regular care, but properly maintained will last the life of the yacht; owners tend to paint them (bad), and often do not understand that upkeep is required.

There has been an unconfirmed report of asbestos used in the galley. Tim Ellis who oversaw production of the Baba 30 from 1977 comments, “If woven asbestos was used, it was behind the stainless steel liner of the stove insert. Asbestos poses no threat in this situation and should not be disturbed. It is the handling and disposal of asbestos that requires care. To be honest, I don’t recall if we used it or not”

As a blue water cruiser, the Baba 30 will carry its crew in safety, and despite its small size, in relative comfort. The boat is well balanced and is relatively stiff. The best point of sail is on a reach with the first reef thrown in at a respectable 20 knots. In storm conditions the boat heaves-to beautifully and the boat is safe and dry.

Most owners report the boat under performs in light airs, to windward do not expect to make much headway in less than 6 knots of wind; 12-18 knots is her element. It’s worth noting Perry disagrees, commenting that the hull though pudgy, is easily driven, and under well trimmed sails can move very nicely in light airs.

Buyers Notes

As with many boats older than 25 years, have your surveyor check items such as chainplates, areas of balsa coring for rot and if applicable, the teak and the wooden mast. Overall, the Baba 30s have aged well, probably better than most boats of this era due to their excellent build quality.

Most Baba 30 owners have replaced the original mild steel 30 gallon fuel tank, which was susceptible to corrosion mounted in the bilge. The tank removes easily in half an afternoon and a new one fabricated from $600 to $1000 from a variety of materials. It’s worth noting the stainless steel water tanks and even the engine are easily removable in the Baba 30, sometimes a big job in other boats.

Resale value has remained high for a boat of its size, but when comparing with other boats in its price range, the 30 offers good value. The value of a Baba 30 will depend largely on the owner care received over the years, as of 2010 the asking price is in the range of $50k-95k USD.

It’s recommended prospective buyers contact the Baba Owners Group at for advice, they run a Yahoo discussion group that’s worth checking out.

Links, References and Further Reading

» Baba Owners Group, Baba 30 info » Baba, Panda, Tashiba sailboat Yahoo Group, information and owner discussions » Sailing Magazine, Jul 2008, Boats and Gear, A bluewater beauty that was built to last” by John Kretschmer » Practical Sailor Magazine, Nov 1998, p12-15, Used Boat Review: an in depth review of the Baba 30 » Good Old Boat Magazine, Mar 1999, Baba 30 feature

For their assistance in the writing of this article, thanks goes out to Tim Ellis who supervised the Baba line of yachts built at Shing Sheng / Ta Sheng during 1977-1987 as well as owners from the Baba Association, particularly Alan D. Sugarman. Permission to publish line drawings and notes kindly granted by Robert H. Perry.

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COMMENTS

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  5. Baba 30

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