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Maurice Griffiths’ Waterwitch

Waterwitch

Waterwitch Billentot seen in Whitby harbour

Waterwitch is the big sister to Maurice Griffiths’ famous shoal draft Eventide design. If you can forgive her boxy hull, I think she makes a good family cruiser, with her inboard rig and triple keel – some might even manage to live on board all year round. I noticed the one pictured above in Whitby harbour during the regatta and talked with the owner, who told me he had bought it cheaply and had spent some time bringing her up to standard. It looked to me then and now as if he’d done a good job.

Plans for building the boat are now available on a CD for the astonishingly reasonable price of £5 from the Eventide Owners Group Waterwitch page . (The EOG is also selling CDs of Eventide plans for the same price.)

There’s a mention of the Waterwitch in an obituary published in the Independent newspaper ten years ago.

There aren’t too many around for sale, but here are a few I found:

● Sail no 26

● The EOG classfieds page

● Steel Waterwitch

● Wooden Ships has one for sale

● So has the Royal Naval Sailing Association

● And for those of you in the North, there’s also one for sale at Amble

Happy browsing, MG fans…

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One thought on “maurice griffiths’ waterwitch”.

Just a little note that we are the Eventide Owners Group. Like the pages, lots of interesting stuff!

John Williams ,

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Review of Waterwitch 30 Mk II

Basic specs..

The hull is made of wood.

The boat equipped with a ketch rig. A ketch rig is generally considered easier to handle, because the sails are smaller, and because it can sail on most points to the wind with one sail completely taken down for repair or while reefing. The sail configuration of a ketch allows for better comfort and stability when sailing downwind or on a broad reach.

The Waterwitch 30 Mk II is equipped with a bilge keel. A bilge keel is a double keel, which allows the boat to be beached. Bilge keels are the most popular keel for tidal waters.

The boat can enter even shallow marinas as the draft is just about 0.76 - 0.86 meter (2.49 - 2.79 ft) dependent on the load. See immersion rate below.

Sailing characteristics

This section covers widely used rules of thumb to describe the sailing characteristics. Please note that even though the calculations are correct, the interpretation of the results might not be valid for extreme boats.

What is Capsize Screening Formula (CSF)?

The capsize screening value for Waterwitch 30 Mk II is 1.60, indicating that this boat could - if evaluated by this formula alone - be accepted to participate in ocean races.

What is Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed?

The theoretical maximal speed of a displacement boat of this length is 6.8 knots. The term "Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed" is widely used even though a boat can sail faster. The term shall be interpreted as above the theoretical speed a great additional power is necessary for a small gain in speed.

The immersion rate is defined as the weight required to sink the boat a certain level. The immersion rate for Waterwitch 30 Mk II is about 137 kg/cm, alternatively 769 lbs/inch. Meaning: if you load 137 kg cargo on the boat then it will sink 1 cm. Alternatively, if you load 769 lbs cargo on the boat it will sink 1 inch.

Sailing statistics

This section is statistical comparison with similar boats of the same category. The basis of the following statistical computations is our unique database with more than 26,000 different boat types and 350,000 data points.

What is Motion Comfort Ratio (MCR)?

What is L/B (Length Beam Ratio)?

What is a Ballast Ratio?

What is Displacement Length Ratio?

Maintenance

When buying anti-fouling bottom paint, it's nice to know how much to buy. The surface of the wet bottom is about 20m 2 (215 ft 2 ). Based on this, your favourite maritime shop can tell you the quantity you need.

If you need to renew parts of your running rig and is not quite sure of the dimensions, you may find the estimates computed below useful.

UsageLengthDiameter
Jib sheet 9.1 m(30.0 feet)12 mm(1/2 inch)
Genoa sheet9.1 m(30.0 feet)12 mm(1/2 inch)
Mainsheet 22.9 m(75.0 feet)12 mm(1/2 inch)
Spinnaker sheet20.1 m(66.0 feet)12 mm(1/2 inch)

This section is reserved boat owner's modifications, improvements, etc. Here you might find (or contribute with) inspiration for your boat.

Do you have changes/improvements you would like to share? Upload a photo and describe what you have done.

We are always looking for new photos. If you can contribute with photos for Waterwitch 30 Mk II it would be a great help.

If you have any comments to the review, improvement suggestions, or the like, feel free to contact us . Criticism helps us to improve.

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waterwitch yacht design

Affordable Classics 12 – the Eventide

Eventide

The Eventide – Maurice Griffith’s era-defining DIY classic

I t is hard to think of another boat so indelibly linked to its designer as Maurice Griffiths is to his Eventide. It was not his only significant design, as the later and larger Waterwitch and Golden Hind, both based on the Eventide, would demonstrate but, alongside his famous books like Magic of the Swatchways and his four-decade-long editorship at Yachting Monthly , during which he played a huge role in the democratisation of yacht sailing in Britain, it is the Eventide that most will remember Griffiths by. It was by some margin his most popular design and is today strongly emblematic of a particular attitude and a particular era; the home-build boom of the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

Griffiths started work on the design for the Eventide in 1956 and a 1:12 model was shown at the London Boat Show the following year. In this, its original and purest iteration, it was a 24ft, shoal-draught, bermudan cutter yacht, with decent accommodation for four. Its single-chine, vee-bottom hull form would make it a relatively easy proposition for amateur home-builders, which was the intention. These days, very few amateurs will take on the build of a yacht this size, and even then, Griffiths thought a 19-footer more realistic, in line with other popular home-builds of the time, like the Yachting Monthly Senior and the Silhouette, both micro-cruisers around 16ft (4.9m) and both hugely popular. Griffiths’ first idea was for a 19-footer, then a 21, but his colleagues at Yachting Monthly persuaded him to go to 23 then 24. As it turned out, this was still not enough, with many builders stretching the design, leading Griffiths to draw the Eventide 26 in 1963, after which both were available.

The 1970s was the Eventide’s heyday. It must have then seemed as though every back garden or garage near the sea had one in build. This was a nation that, although comfortably within living memory, sounds foreign now; a place of Seagull outboards, Mirror dinghies and practical men comfortable wielding a chisel. GRP yachts like the new Westerly Centaur were seen as expensive and exotic. It was, in fact, an era closer to the adventures of the Walkers and Blacketts than to the world today, and in that benign crucible, around 1,000 were built, mostly in back gardens. Very few – maybe 50 – were built professionally.

Hulls were in traditional carvel, plywood or strip-planking, a few are glass, and there is a popular Dutch variant in steel called the Kasteloo. But most are in ply. The rig, as specified, is bermudan cutter, but some are gaff, a few junk. Engine is usually an inboard diesel – 8hp will suffice for the 24, while the 26 will need 12hp for anything more than marina use.

There is huge variation in style in the Eventide fleet. Maurice Griffiths himself said that the design could be stretched by up to 10 per cent without loss of integrity, and owners have taken similar liberties with the accommodation, making the range of available Eventides bewildering. The stepped sheer, raised deck and distinctive cabin trunk do, however, make them unmistakable, as well as providing unheard of interior space in a design of the size and era. Expect a proper four-berth layout and up to 5ft 8in (1.7m) of standing headroom below decks.

Eventide

Under sail, the Eventide was originally unweatherly and underballasted, as proved by the voyage of Bora Bee , a Singapore-built Eventide that sailed for England in 1959 with the then-specified ballast of 590lb (267lb)   and a great quantity of tinned food. The boat became increasingly unstable as the crew ate their way through their supplies. The ballast was subsequently increased to 800lb, then 1,000. These days, 2,000 is considered about right which, along with the usual modern refinements internally, add about 5in (125mm) to the draught and a smidge to the waterline. Other common modifications these days include a slightly deeper and/or longer stub keel for better windward performance, an extra 5in of length in the hull, bowsprit (to reduce the tendency to excessive weather helm), and the steel bilge keels moved aft a station (for the same reason).

These days, a well-sorted Eventide offers an inherently stable, shoal-draught yacht whose 20 0 deadrise vee hull (and that extra ballast!) make for a yacht that can cross oceans even better than Bora Bee demonstrated. Recently, our featured owner John Williams sailed his E26 Fiddler’s Green around Britain and it’s worth noting that the Eventides’ successor – the Golden Hind – is thought to hold the record for the most transatlantic crossings of any class. There aren’t many other yachts that will suit creek-crawling and blue-water sailing with accommodation for the whole family that can be had for less than £3,000. There is a caveat of course, which applies to any home-built class of boat where quality is so variable, so as always, the advice is to get a survey before buying. The upside is the possibility of a real bargain.

In many ways, the Eventide is the Morris Minor of English yachts and holds as firm a tenure on sailors as ‘the moggie’ does over motorists. The Eventide Owners’ Group, whose website started in 1992, is very active and will sell you a set of plans to build a new one, if you are brave enough, for £5.50 inc P&P. Otherwise, there are plenty of used examples around, so you should be able to get just what you are after.

ONE OWNER’S VIEW

Eventide

“Think of the Eventide as the sort of boat you can make to be what you need, either a shoestring boat for day sails or, as I chose, a modern wood epoxy composite yacht, fully kitted out for serious sailing, as well as comfortable day sails. She is sea kindly and steady under sail or motor, stands up to her canvas well and as many have noted, is no slouch. Fiddler’s Green , with 5ft 8in (1.72m) head room, has five berths, holding tank for the heads, water filter for the galley, decent cooker with oven, heater, fridge with freezer, LCD lights, decent motor (Beta 17), good, well maintained tan sails… all the mod cons. She is a boat I am proud of and I know will take me anywhere. She’s no greyhound but under sail can do over 6.5k. Cruising speed under motor is 5 knots, top speed 6.”

John Williams, owner of E26 Fiddler’s Green , president Eventide Owner’s Group

CB would like to thank John for his expertise in writing this article. See eventides.org.uk to learn more about the class

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Waterwitch 30 MKI

Waterwitch 30 MKI is a 29 ′ 11 ″ / 9.1 m monohull sailboat designed by Maurice Griffiths and built by Various - mostly amateur built starting in 1957.

Drawing of Waterwitch 30 MKI

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

  • SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
  • D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
  • LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
  • LOA: Length overall in feet
  • Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Among the most popular Griffiths designs that appeared in ‘Yachting Monthly’ Magazine during the late 1950’s.

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waterwitch yacht design

WaterWitch 48

waterwitch yacht design

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Maurice Griffiths Designs

  • Thread starter chrisbarbour
  • Start date 20 Mar 2009
  • 20 Mar 2009

chrisbarbour

Hello, If anyone could offer advice, or knows of any critical writings/resources for MG boat designs i'd be most grateful for a few pointers! I am considering a 30 or 31 ft GRP golden hind or waterwitch, which is a bermudan-rigged, hard chined boat with loads of space for it's size, tri-keel profile and lots of character for a GRP boat. All round it seems ideal for myself. However it's underwater profile looks a bit like a bath-tub and, compared to long keelers, doesn't look particularly stable or sea-worthy! Despite this i have been assured by the owner that it is indeed a very solid sailing boat with a good reputation. Spaciousness and bottom-taking ability is more important to me than sailing performance, but i want something that I wont grow out of to fast, i.e: something reliable, seaworthy and capable of making leisurely passages. There dont seem many boats around that fit the bill: seadog ketch : very solid maybe too pricey westerly: ugly, cheap, only really a day cruiser (im told) If the MG is indeed suited for offshore sailing then this seems the best i've come across. Any tips or advice on alternatives would be greatly appreciated.  

oughtoc

Each to thier own, if you like the feel of it, then buy it. You have to love your boat. Me, I like wood.....  

sarabande

Well-known member

start with the Eventide owners group. They are a repository for the Griffiths designs and info. http://www.eventides.org.uk/  

Bajansailor

Bajansailor

Have a look on www.amazon.co.uk for books by Maurice Griffiths - for example : Little Ships and Shoal Waters The Magic of the Swatchways Swatchways and Little Ships Dream Ships 60 years a Yacht Designer I have Little Ships and Shoal Waters, and it is an excellent read. GH 31s are pretty seaworthy - Terry Erskine used to advertise (in the 70s and early 80s) how they are made something like 30 odd transatlantic crossings, with various voyages to New Zealand, and perhaps around the world as well. A pal of mine had one in the late 70s, and I sailed a passage on her from the Grenadines up to Antigua - not the fastest of 30 footers by any means, but fairly comfortable. I think I would prefer a Sea Dog though, if given the option.  

Welcome to the forum. I have owned an MG boat for nearly 30 years and have a good archive of material and plans - although most information is now held by the Eventide Owners group. My boat is an Eventide 26 design, built by Hartwells in 1963 at the same time as the first Golden Hinds (originally 28 and then 31). Terry Erskine worked for Hartwells and subsequently took over the building himself. The GH is a very different boat from the Waterwitch having deeper draft and more deadrise. The early ones were single chine like my Eventide, but most after about 1969/70 were double chine. Until the early 80's they were all wood, but gradually GRP hulls took over, although decks and coachroofs were epoxy sheathed wood. Terry stopped building in the mid 80s and a number of other builders produced a small number, until Mark Urry (who had built a wood GH) took over the moulds and built a few. There were also a number of 26 footers built, developed from my Eventide 26, but with double chines. After the history, what are they like? Very different to what you imagine from the shape. Very stable and comfortable, not fast and the early ones were undercanvassed. Some were built as cutters or with a taller mast and there were a few with ketch rig. They live up to their reputation as sound long distance cruisers as well as being handy in shallow water. The early ones were not very well built and have a number of weak points where rot can set in - although some, like mine were Cascover sheathed which helps. The interior of early boats was spartan and the frames took up a lot of space. SABB and aircooled Lister engines were common. However, later boats, particularly Erskine built boats of the late 70s early 80s were very well built and have more modern layouts down below. Terry had a good business for a while selling to Americans who got a custom built boat which they often sailed away from Plymouth to do trans Atlantic or even world cruises, so you find them all over the world - there are a couple for sale in N America now. As to whether they are a good buy depends on your plans. They are solid boats, good usable accommodation. Some have gone to the Med, like Richard Hares who has a late Mark Urry built boat and writes in Classic Boat, but as a Med sailor this would not be my first choice. Good Erskine boats sell for £25k upwards - wide range because often huge variation in age equipment and condition. Seems to fit the bill for what you want. You might also consider a Barbican 33 also a Griffiths design, but round bilge and centreboard. More yachty and less "rustic" than a GH, but also to me less charm and more expensive. If you PM (Private Mail) me with details of the boat you are looking at I might be able to give you more information. Mark Urry's boat, Moonlight was tested by both PBO and YM when it was new (about 10 years ago!) and more recently as a secondhand boat by Sailing Today. You should be able to access them through the back numbers service. MG as you may know was editor of Yachting Monthly for over 40 years. He was a great "popular cruising" man and his designs reflected his philosophy. Most designs were built in small numbers and many of the Eventide/Waterwitch family were home built, but the GH was a very successful "production" boat with over 150 built. If your view of life and sailing is on the same wavelength as MG then you can't go wrong with one of his boats.  

Welcome. What excellent replies from people who know a lot more than me! But I love MG designs, and as Tranona puts it, MG's 'view on life and sailing...' I've read and reread all his books, and keep them close to hand. (Dream Ships is one of my favourites) I've sailed on all sorts of boats, including Eventides, and I love all boats. But as a more eminent poster than me said - you've got to love your boat! And as Arthur Beiser said at the beginning of his book 'The Proper Yacht' "To my mind, unless one's spirit soars at the sight of a boat... it just won't do." Best wishes.  

  • 28 Mar 2009

jimmi

Billy_Mizzen

Try posting this as new thread and you’ll get a much better response! Can’t help you with ID but I’m sure they’ll be someone along soon who can! Just a guess but looks akin to a Magyar 7?  

Thanks Billy i,ll try that  

  • 17 May 2009

Santana379

I had and loved a (GRP) Golden Hind 31 (Francis Fletcher) from 1999 to 2006. Since then I've had a Barbican 33 (Santana). The GH is huge inside for a 31.5ft long-keeler. The storage space is just amazing, so of course you tend to fill it, making it even heavier. Not a performance boat in any sense, but a great sea boat in terms of handling the rough stuff and looking after the crew. Stands up to her (small) sail area well thanks to the chines. The Barbican is only a foot longer (32.5ft) and weighs the same. It carries more sail, and is significantly more (initially) tender requiring much earlier reefing, but probably only early relative to a GH! Sailing performance is a lot better, and we are now sailing in F2 winds that would have had us motoring in the GH. The Golden Hind is not easy to handle in a marina - the turning cicle is about the size of a football pitch, and the rudder has little or no bearing on the direction she goes in reverse. Having said that the engine power / propellor will have a big influence on that. Basically the GH doesn't like changing direction much, so is fabulous to single hand, and I sailed ours for miles at a time with the rig balanced and the tiller left untended without an auto pilot. Build quality of the GRP GH is very good indeed, and it was an immensely strong boat. The new owner of ours plans to sail her to Australia. There was a time when the GH had allegedly done more Transats (100+) than any other class, and they are to be found all over the world. Neither boat is very close winded, as one would expect from shoal draft long-keelers with bilge plates. PM me if you would like a 'phone chat on my personal experience of both. As a buyer the trouble with the books on and by Maurice Griffiths is that they are naturally not very objective. I am a member of both the EOA and the EOG, and there is much wisdom available at both.  

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Details and photographs are normally based on one specific yacht, but could be a compilation. No reliance should be placed on other yachts of the same class being identical.  Where common variations exist, we have endeavoured to indicate this in these archive details.
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Stephens Waring Yacht Design

Spirit of Tradition Yachts Designed In Maine

Home » News » Construction » 39-ft S/Y WISP Launches and Heads South

39-ft S/Y WISP Launches and Heads South

Posted on September 17, 2024 and filed under Construction , Design , Spirit of Tradition , SWD News & Stories

waterwitch yacht design

39-ft S/Y WISP hit the water after a compressed build time of less than a year. Photo credit: Alison Langley

On August 5, our latest design, WISP, was gently lowered into the harbor in Camden, Maine. The 39-footer is the most recent in a string of luxurious daysailer/weekenders we’ve designed over the last couple of decades. She was designed to be beautiful, comfortable, easy-to-sail, and fast—and by the end of that week in August we were able to see how we did on all counts.

waterwitch yacht design

While packing plenty of performance under sail, Wisp effortlessly transforms into a luxury weekender, featuring saloon seating for four and a queen-size forward berth. Photo credit: Alison Langley

WISP hit the water after a compressed build time of less than a year, and that last week was key in pulling all the details together. Lots of last-minute details in systems and rigging took place in a well-choreographed rush orchestrated by Alec Brainerd, founder of Artisan Boatworks , as the goal of sea trials loomed Thursday morning. Step the mast, tune the rig, bend on sails, commission the engine, electrics, and hydraulic system…. Details seemed endless, but by midday Thursday we were casting off lines and heading out to see how she sailed.

  With crimson cushions and backrests in place, we began to test the luxury of the cockpit even before sails were unrolled—with owners, builder, designer, and reps from sailmaker North Sails , spar—builder Moore Brothers , and Ransom Morse, hydraulics genius, we were testing the capacity of the 13-foot-long cockpit. The cockpit was laid out to provide a generous lounge area forward and sail-handling focus aft at the helm, and easily met the challenge of eight people aboard.

waterwitch yacht design

On deck, WISP offers a sophisticated, dual-purpose cockpit: a plush, upholstered area for lounging forward and a dedicated sailing zone aft. Thanks to a design that marries functional ergonomics with classic aesthetics, the helmsperson enjoys easy access to all sailing controls without leaving the wheel. Photo credit: Alison Langley

The day was clear and warm, with a gentle sea breeze building. We tuned the electrically-furling mainsail to mate the mandrel to the winch, then hoisted full main and unrolled the working jib. We’d designed the sial plan to provide really easy handling and plenty of area for lighter breezes, common in her home port in western Long Island Sound, so the six knots true wind was a perfect test bed. Dialing in the sail trim and sheet positions, we quickly found WISP’s groove, and soon were sailing upwind at about 26 degrees apparent and boat speed of 5.9 knots—calling that a win! After trying a couple of tacks we cracked off to a beam reach and unrolled the MPS, and speed jumped to 8 knots in 8 knots true.

These few minutes of sailing would be all her designer would experience, as a tropical depression rolled through the next day, and by the following Monday, she was headed south and west to her owner’s mooring in western Connecticut. But before she shoved off, we were blessed with a gorgeous Saturday afternoon photo-shoot opportunity on the tail-end of the storm, with strong breezes and priceless clouds to form a backdrop to the Camden Hills as master marine photographer Alison Langley  plied her craft. Here are a few of the gems she captured—enjoy!

waterwitch yacht design

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new yacht concept with turquoise yachts and h2 yacht design called voyage

Turquoise Yachts and H2 Yacht Design join forces on 57m superyacht concept for "young buyer"

Turkish shipyard Turquoise Yachts and British studio H2 Yacht Design have collaborated on a new, 56.5-metre concept known as Voyage.

In keeping with her name, Voyage has "a hint of tough explorer" present in her exterior styling. "I also wanted her to possess unusually clean and crisp surfacing," explained Jonny Horsfield, founder of H2 Yacht Design, "From her unusual bow shape to the reverse curves of the hull back to the large open transom she is surprisingly radical in her design detailing."

Voyage is envisioned for a younger buyer with an active lifestyle. Key features include a large pool on the aft deck flanked by sofa seating, tender storage in an enclosed garage on the main deck and a touch-and-go helicopter pad on the bow. 

The sundeck is partially enclosed, with the aft portion accessible via sliding glass doors and arranged with twin sunbeds and a bar. An al fresco dining table and lounge space can be found on the main deck, while the swim platform is arranged with sunloungers and umbrellas for waterside sunbathing.

Accommodation is for up to 10 guests, including an owner's deck and suite with "sweeping panoramic views".

According to BOATPro , the Turkish shipyard has three yachts under construction, the largest of which is the 87-metre Project Vento which moved to outfitting in September 2023 .

A recent delivery by Turquoise Yachts – the 75-metre Infinite Jest – was the cover star of the May 2024 edition of BOAT International magazine. 

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3D printed boats

Discussion in ' Boat Design ' started by Jan Herich , Aug 11, 2023 .

Jan Herich

Jan Herich Junior Member

Hello, I'm new on this forum, so let me introduce myself. For a quite long time, I have been experimenting with 3D printing in conjunction with composite manufacturing, at first only in pretty common way of printing small parts and/or patterns/moulds, but slowly working towards fully leveraging fast 3D printing as a viable production method for prototypes/small production runs of various boat hulls. This is my latest creation, low volume, flat-decked paddling canoe, 405cm long and 46cm wide, with "recurve" keel-line for low stable position which is still powerful and ergonomic (feet below seat): * 6kg of filament & 60 hrs of printing, it's essentially 3D printed core with optimal geometry and some interesting geometric structure (in the retrospect, lighter 4-5kg core would be totally sufficient) * Skinned with GFRP from inside/outside to form a stiff sandwich, one layer of 320gsm biaxial fabric inside, one layer of 160gsm twill fabric outside (in the retrospect, 160gsm even inside would be fine) * Wooden paulownia deck, skinned 160gsm from both sides * White PU topcoat * 10.3kg total weight (could easily be 7-8kg with lighter core and lighter carbon fabric instead of glass) * Still very stiff and strong due to the very thick (up to 20mm) 3D printed core. I only did some basic back of the napkin type calculations for the whole boat, but when I place the bow/stern on supports and stand (80kg) in the middle, it's very solid with minimal deflection (it will be never subjected to such loads in normal paddling conditions) * It still needs rudder with steering mechanism, but when I tested it on a lake, it behaved very good in water, with good speed/stability ratio, given the short waterline length. I would love to get in touch with people interested in the technology/potential of rapid functional prototyping in similar way, feel free to ask any questions, comparisons with traditional DIY building methods like stitch&glue or strip-planking, etc. Some photos form the print/laminate process:  

laukejas

laukejas Senior Member

Hi Jan, a very interesting project you have there! I am into 3D printing myself as well, so I have several questions for you. 1. What type of filament did you use? 2. What settings (perimeter lines, infil, etc.)? 3. Are you not worried about water intrusion into the core if the shell is damaged? When people build similar kinds of sandwitch hulls with foam, usual consensus is that no matter what you do, the foam will still end up soaked with water that you won't be able to get out. In this case, foam is substituted by air gaps inside the 3D print. Did you design in some channels in the infil to allow the water to flow to one end of the hull on order to let it out in case of hull breach? 4. What kind of Delta printer is that, and the extrusion system? 60 hours seems insanely fast for 6kg of filament. 5. What kind of joinery did you use to assemble 3D printed parts? 6. How much flex and sag was there in the 3D printed structure prior to applying glass? Did you find it difficult to keep it from breaking or splitting along layer lines when handling? I am also very surprised that a single layer of 160/320 gsm was enough. Seriously, what kind of filament were you using? 7. Would you mind sharing your CAD files, or at least some pictures with cross-sectional views? I am really interested in how you managed to make such a stiff structure with so little material.  
Hi laukejas, very good questions, I will try to answer them: 1. It's plain PLA, annealed to raise the TG - I experimented with almost every FDM material available (except really exotic/hard-to-print materials like PEEK, PPS...) and PLA still wins for this purpose by a long shot, as it's by far stiffest FDM polymer with ~3.7GPA E modulus of elasticity compared to 2-2.2GPA of ABS/PETG, or even 2.5GPA of polycarbonate. There are materials which promise much higher values, like special CF filled PA blends, but they rarely deliver on those values, and especially PA6/66 blends absorb moisture like crazy and load creep horribly afterwards. For example I printed one small boat (2.7x0.44, for my 6y daughter) from much more expensive technical CPE filament and while it worked ok and once laminated it was very stiff as well, I had to use thicker extrusion lines due to the much lower E modulus (~1.8GPA) of the material. 2. It's impossible to print such things efficiently with standard slicer, I have my own special slicer generating optimised GCODE with minimal travel moves, next to no retractions and fully configurable infill types which is perpendicular to perimeter contours, unlike infill in normal slicer which is just fixed mesh cut by perimeters and the only way to "orient" it is by turning the model on the buildplate. When I started I tried to use standard slicer with all kinds of tweaks, I tried surface-only mode in cura (popular in 3D printed RC airplane community), nothing worked properly and reliably, so I had to code by own slicer, now it's quite mature and I'm very happy with it. The structure used is basically warren-truss in cross-section, with sine modulated truss location between inner/outer skin in order to combat euler buckling. I did compressive and shear strength testing on stabilised samples of the core and they compared quite favourably with performance foams/honeycombs commonly used in composite construction, especially as the core grows thicker. The boat was printed with 0.6mm extrusion width and 0.3mm layer height, 0.45-0.5mm would be probably fully sufficient, saving 1-1.5kg from overall core weight. 3. As you can see on the translucent core from CPE, there are sine modulated triangular channels which go along the whole piece, only separated by solid top/bottom where pieces are joined, so in case of a skin/core breach, it shouldn't be problematic to drain it out. Still. nomex cores work just fine in many higher end carbon boats and they are basically full of hollow hexagonal cells. 4. It's big www.spacedelta3d.com , my own printer design, scalable to big dimensions with very fast print-head movements, hot-end currently tops out at 30mm3/s, that's the main limit. 5. I used methylacrylate structural adhesive, although plain CA would be totally sufficient, once firmly laminated between FRP skins, that basically doesn't matter. 6. It was quite solid and I could easily lift and position it without any special care, no problems with twisting or splitting between layers. 7. My design program works directly parametric patches, or to be more specific, I specify inner/outer sandwich surface patch and the program computes the infill and directly generates gcode. I can of course share rendering of hull inner/outer contours (cubic NURBS in control lines & cross section) but unless you are specifically interested in that particular hull, there is nothing specific which makes it stiff, that's just the outer/inner shape, stiffness comes from the sine modulated warren-truss like infill structure. Here is the rendering of sample cross-section from my slicer (it can do non-planar/variable width paths as well), hopefully the internal structure can be seen there:  

comfisherman

comfisherman Senior Member

I've roughly nothing to add intellectually... except to say that is awesome!  
Thank you for answering my questions, this is seriously impressive, especially that you had to write your own slicer software for this, I know how incredibly difficult that can be. I have a few follow up questions based on what you wrote: 1. How did you anneal PLA parts so large, and without causing them to deform? I had annealed PLA in the past, but even if I kept temperature relatively low (60-70 C), there was still a significant dimensional deformation. Overall, PLA does sound like the best choice here, although I'm very surprised that you had no issues with layer separation, considering you only had one perimeter. Also, at 6kg, I dare not think how expensive it would be to use any of the CF-filled filaments... 2. Typically when slicer is unable to generate required infil, I design it myself in the CAD - what was the reason why this wouldn't work here? Is it because it would become impossible to control travel moves and retractions? Why was it so important to avoid them? Your project made me seriously jealous! Since I'm designing my next boat right now (around 4.7 x 0.6), I would be considering the same approach, but since my printer is limited to 350 x 350 x 350 (Voron V2.4) I guess having to do the hull in such small pieces, the joinery and glueing would result in way too much excess weight. Still, damn nice project you have there!  

Waterwitch

Waterwitch Senior Member

I was wondering why the stern section is green? You are amazing I would not be able to laminate a skin on a carpet inside my house with a small drop cloth like that without getting resin all over the carpet Is there any off gassing running a 3d printer with your filaments?  
comfisherman said: ↑ I've roughly nothing to add intellectually... except to say that is awesome! Click to expand...

:)

Amazing stuff, man, thank you for answering my questions. The video you shared clearly shows the benefits of your slicer. By the way, is it open source? It would be really cool to try it. I do have some ideas of how to (big maybe) do it with standard slicer by importing perimeter and infil as separate objects into the slicer, and applying different settings to it. I'll try it when I get home. About the annealing, I didn't quite get it, you annealed the entire hull after applying fiberglass and epoxy? Where did you find an oven this big? One last question... I understood how you glued the separate pieces together, but I am not quite sure how you aligned them together, and how large the gluing surfaces were. Did you design in some aligning features, and maybe something to increase that bonding area? Perhaps you could share a few pics of two ends that fit together to be glued?  

TANSL

TANSL Senior Member

Interesting work, congratulations. I suppose that all the possible problems inherent to the mechanical properties of a material that, in some aspects, is different from the traditional one have been solved and if these properties have been kept the same throughout the length. On the other hand, when observing the process, I wonder if it would not be a better idea to use the 3D printer to build only the mold and on it, apply the normal technique of lamination with a male mold. Thank you for your time.  
@laukejas 1. It used to be open-source, but it's not anymore, recently I did a big refactor making it much more generic and usable and closed-sourced it. I would prefer to keep it open source, but I'm trying to turn the whole idea into start-up and raise-money for it, and every potential investor I spoke with freaked-out when I mentioned it was open source. I think it's stupid and I totally love open-source software, I contributed to multiple projects, including 2 PRs related to delta printers which were merged into Klipper firmware, but I need to raise money to push this whole idea further. Modelling every extrusion line as separate STL could work, it's still very tricky to model enclosed volume with right thickness so the slicer always choses to represent it with one continuous extrusion line, doesn't interrupt/omit the lines, etc. Cura has experimental "surface only" mode which helps with this a lot (you basically don't need to model enclosed volume), but it's very buggy and when I raised one issue related to mode 2-3 years ago on github, it was basically dismissed as "not a priority" (I guess not many people us it) and closed without resolution. At the same time, modelling couple of straight ribs manually in CAD tool is no big deal, but modelling warren truss following the contours of skin while being sine modulated in height, I really wouldn't want to do it manually... 2. Yes, it was annealed once laminated, I have a long, narrow (4.2x0.5x0.5m) low temperature "oven" made from polystyrene plates with plywood bottom and silicone heating wire as a heat source, hooked to simple PID controller, it's very basic and only gets to 60-70C (depending on outer temperature), but it's enough for annealing PLA over long time period. 3. Regarding alignment, the panels have full bottom/top and are joined with simple butt joint, I just ensure that inner/outer surface align perfectly, but it would be better to model alignment holes there and use short wooden/cfrp dowels there, something to work on. @TANSL Yes, I tested core samples quite extensively and they compare very good to traditional core materials, even not taking into account advantages like being able to use core with much greater thickness, smoothly varying core thickness/density, etc, with more development, it will be even better. Regarding mold making, yes, it's an option, but I was never fan of male molds for hull making - the greatest advantage of molding is easily reproducible super smooth surface finish, which means female molds for ship/aircraft/vehicle hulls. Directly printing female mold with supporting structure & flange doesn't make much sense IMHO, as sanding/polishing concave surfaces is much more difficult harder then convex ones, not to mention that 3D printed surface would never be such hardy and reliable as dedicated tooling gelcoat. That leaves us with printing dimensional pattern and taking mold from it with traditional methods - the process I presented is just making the dimensional pattern not only dimensionally accurate, but functional as well, enabling rapid, relatively low-cost testing/iteration without need to make expensive female mold everytime something changes. The greatest added value lies in the fact, that you can actually throughly test the hull in real conditions, opposed to only CFD simulations (which are great, but no substitute for real-life testing), iterate fast and once you are satisfied with the shape, take the surface to class-A finish and take female mold from it using traditional methods for economic higher-volume production.  
Thank you for your answers, @Jan Herich , I'm not very convinced about them but forget it. It is not about convincing me but about making a hull that is resistant and safe, and cheap. I have never spoken, by the way, of a female mold. Good luck, then, with your project. I hope it will be a resounding success and that we will soon see this procedure generalized, at least for small canoes.  
I have seen some attempts at using 3D prints as molds, but it hardly seems like a scalable solution because of how much prep work is required to achieve surface finish acceptable for a mold. However, when using it as a core material like Jan did here, this issue is not present (one might even argue that the rough surface of 3D print can improve mechanical bonding), and it may even have many advantages over traditional core materials for a DIY boat builder, such as: 1. Traditional core materials need molds to be put into shape, just like the inner/outer "skin" material. 3D printed core already comes in shape, so it's a mold by itself. No other molds, no jigs, no strongbacks, nothing really necessary, just prep the surface post printing, coat it with GFRP / CFRP and you have a hull. 2. Any kind of shape can be printed, opening up possibilities for some really interesting geometries that might not be doable with traditional female molds because of negative pull angles and so on. 3. Most core materials (to my knowledge, I might be wrong here) absorb water to some degree, so if there is is penetrative damage, it might be impossible to dry it out. Meanwhile, this mostly hollow 3D printed core would allow intruded water to flow along the infil like Jan said, and a collection area with a plug could be designed at a transom to evacuate the water. Or, since such occurances are so rare, just drill a small hole for the water to drain and later plug it with epoxy. 4. The flexibility of shapes that can be printed would allow for making other boat parts as well. How about centerboards, rudders, perhaps even spars? I still have my doubts on the strength of the plastic. I've printed with PLA a lot, and even if printed at higher temperatures and annealed, layer adhesion is still a major strength issue. It clearly wasn't an issue with a canoe hull, but what about sailing dinghy hull, which is subjected to twist and bending? Since layer lines happen to go longitudinally along the hull (like stations), bending load would place most stress on these layer lines. That goes double for trying to build centerboards, rudders and especially spars with this method. However, if we assume that this printed core is only really responsible for handling compressive loads, and everything else is relied on the GFRP / CFRP skin, then perhaps layer adhesion strength issue can be (almost) completely mitigated, since these materials are far stiffer than PLA, therefore any excessive bending force would first break the skin rather than separate print layer lines, meaning it layer adhesion doesn't really matter. I think I might make some test prints, coat them with CFRP and load them to failure to test this theory. If this holds true, then only the compressive strength of the core really matters, and everything else is taken up by the skin. Since 3D printed core can offset the skin from the neutral bend axis by such a huge amount, adding several more layers of CFRP would increase strength in the most optimal location in terms of weight. Jan, I would really love to hear your thoughts on this. Perhaps you already made some similar experiments? You also mentioned that you made some simulations to calculate the expected strength of this PLA core + CFRP combo. I would really love to hear how you made these simulations. Since 3D printed parts are highly orthotopic, and even disregarding layer adhesion, the specific print line layout can highly influence stiffness and strength, I always assumed it would be near-impossible to simulate with any degree of certainty. And to add on top of that, making a composite material of such a structure with CFRP coating, which is also quite a difficult material to simulate, seems to make it even more complex and unpredictable. Jan, can you share any of this info? I seriously think you are onto something with this project, but we definitely need to work out what are the limitations of this new technology. P.S. It would also be interesting to know if epoxy binds chemically to PLA (or any other common 3D printed plastics like PETG, PC, ABS), or just mechanically. As far as I've tried coating PLA parts with epoxy, the bond seems to be really strong, but then again, I would always scuff up the surface with 80-120 grit, so I'm not sure really.  
Quick addition: I found a very interesting paper on the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6401912/pdf/polymers-10-01262.pdf It's a study of 3D printed materials coated with composites and an investigation of the resultant material properties. There are a few interesting moments I'd like to point out: 1. In section 2.4.1, there is a consistent pattern that 2 layers of composite coating on top of 3D printed core is significantly weaker than 1 layer, but 3 layers is stronger than either of the two. There seems to be something weird going on with 2 layers. I am still searching through this paper for an explanation. 2. In page 7, they state: It was noticed that the failure of the sandwich CFRP/ABS/CFRP started at the CFR layers followed by the failure in the core material. This because the ductility of the CFRP is less than the ABS material. I interpret this as a confirmation of what I wrote in my previous post, that layer adhesion issue inherent to 3D printing might matter not matter at all with composite coating, so perhaps the only question of the applicability of 3D printed materials is the compressive strength per weight compared to other core materials. Feel free to correct me.  

Heimfried

Heimfried Senior Member

laukejas said: ↑ [...] However, if we assume that this printed core is only really responsible for handling compressive loads, and everything else is relied on the GFRP / CFRP skin, then perhaps layer adhesion strength issue can be (almost) completely mitigated, since these materials are far stiffer than PLA, therefore any excessive bending force would first break the skin rather than separate print layer lines, meaning it layer adhesion doesn't really matter. [...] Click to expand...
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Hi @laukejas Regarding the paper you posted, I found the whole concept and methodology super strange: 1. They printed dogbone samples which are used for tensile strength testing 2. They laminated them to form sandwich structures and and measured ultimate tensile strength/E-modulus -> as the cfrp skins have much absolute higher tensile strength & E modulus (even taking into account significantly lower cross-section of cfrp compared to core material), the core is basically totally irrelevant (as long as its strength/E-modulus are lower in absolute terms compared to skins), and you will get the same/similar values from the test machine even with no core whatsoever, just 2 skins bonded together. The only influence of the core is on specific strength/E-modulus of the part because the core changes the part weight/density. That's not how sandwich structures are usually tested, testing bending strength/E-modulus would be much more insightful as that's the whole point of sandwich structure. Not to mention there is no data on infill type used, print orientation, core thickness... When I tested the cores, I first printed small stabilised samples and tested their specific strength in compression/shear - I compared those values with datasheets for foam/honeycomb/end-grain balsa etc. I didn't have access to proper expensive testing machine, so I unfortunately couldn't really test E-modulus, I just designed simple fixtures and progressively loaded weights till it failed. Next I created rectangular laminated samples and tested those with 3-point bending test, already measuring displacement in the middle via dial indicator. Every failure there was in buckling mode, either in the skin loaded in compression or core rib loaded in compression, never delamination of core between layers or skin/core - that was the primary motivator for sine modulated structure, in order to raise euler critical load. While FDM prints are always weaker in the Z direction, it's not really that bad and depends a lot on material/cooling -> PLA/PETG with minimal/no-cooling exhibits Z strength of 70-80% of the optimal direction, which is kind of OK. Regarding chemical bonding of epoxy to plastic surface, I doubt that, I always scratch the surface with ~80grit sandpaper for good mechanical bond, low-surface energy materials like nylons would probably benefit from things like flame treatment as well.  

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